Curse

Thenameless Wonder · Sep 13, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26

How to nerf: reprogram terrorweb dryders to use lava font if there is only player.

Btw I don't even see a point at nerfing the underworld. Only a handful of guilds can complete it in less than 10min but the rest of society has a 90% failure rate. I did bout 15 runs and only have gotten 4 chests. I really see no point in nerfing uwsc

Maker of the fallen · Sep 13, 2009, 05:02 AM // 05:02

There is the only way, imho, to nerf it and have everyone happy.

Since they already said it needed to be changed, they are not going to "just leave it alone" as some of you put it.

Others said that the simple fix would be to put all sorts of skills that get past shadow form into underworld, only problem with that is, anything that isn't UWSC will have even more of a hard time with it. How do you expect to run a balance hmm? So that's a no bueno.

I also don't like the idea of nerfing it to hell. Another smiter's boon would just show us that they don't care about guild wars anymore.

So, all that leaves is, ZOMG WuT iz it!1!!!11! Remaking the skill completely...

Let's do an aegis (pvp) and just make a brand new skill that isn't broken.
Would make my day if they did this, not only showing motivation in the team, but, giving us a brand new elite for the game.

Just my two cents.

Schnellburg · Sep 13, 2009, 05:58 AM // 05:58

You don't run SF in a balanced team.

Nighthawk2dr · Sep 13, 2009, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I don't really see why everyone wants it nerfed...cheap ectos=good thing. Besides, how does UWSC affect you and your experience in the UW anyways? It's not like you could actually find anyone who wasn't solo farming smites before uwsc came out

, and if you did, chances were you failed in 10 minutes

. Get a guild group and do balanced if you want.

anyways.
Couple ways you could nerf it.

Make Shadow Form a stance. Simple enough, still makes sense, won't work with deadly paradox.
Make the recharge reduction time of Deadly Paradox non-stacking.
Reduce Deadly paradox's skill recharge reduction to 25% instead of 33%.
Hmmm. just thought of this. Switch some numbers around. ^^ What about something like this.

Deadly Paradox - All of your attack skills are disabled for 13...5 seconds. For 10 seconds, your Assassin skills activate and recharge 15...33% faster.

Seems like this would solve quite a few of the problems. In order to maintain shadow form you would need 11-12 points in deadly arts. You would still be able to maintain it, but it wouldn't be an uber farm build. You could even change it to 15...50% and it would still require 6 points, reducing the efficiency of most of the UWSC builds.
Makes sense to me... =P

Maybe it's too late and I need to go to bed...

IronSheik · Sep 13, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

UWSC can't be fixed, remove Underworld.

amirite devs?

Bug John · Sep 13, 2009, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrage

Okay, they aren't concerned about the skill obviously, ( They haven't nerfed it in all this time) they are concerned about elite areas getting demolished by it, and the skill generally taking over all PvE builds, as ursan did.

most of you fail to see the real problem

SF is just another farm build, overpowered or not, depends on the income it generates (not so high if you're pugging it btw)

if you start killing farming (in general, SF or anything else), as elite areas have absolutely no repeatability, they'll be as dead as doa

nerfing SF won't promote balanced pugs, people will just move on to another farm, because there's absolutely NO point in doing anything else

seriously, would you really spend 2 or 3 hours completing an area for a diamond and a passage scroll (more than once, for fun) ?

make UW hard as hell if you want, but make the rewards worthwhile, or just let things as they are (broken)

sLiceR · Sep 13, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

smiter's boon SF imho

ll Jamie ll · Sep 13, 2009, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sLiceR

smiter's boon SF imho

......

Personally im going with an idea posted in the first page of this thread, making SF cast in about 6 seconds. (paradox making it roughly 4.5 secs)

It could still be possible to keep up SF, but would cut down on the amount of UWSC's due to a high chance of failing Shadow Form and making the run more longer and annoying. You would need good timing to keep up SF, however this is just my idea.

Or just make AI (Dhuum Riders) use Signet of Humility better, so that they use it on you while SF is recharging.

Atro · Sep 13, 2009, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

most of you fail to see the real problem

SF is just another farm build, overpowered or not, depends on the income it generates (not so high if you're pugging it btw)

if you start killing farming (in general, SF or anything else), as elite areas have absolutely no repeatability, they'll be as dead as doa

nerfing SF won't promote balanced pugs, people will just move on to another farm, because there's absolutely NO point in doing anything else

seriously, would you really spend 2 or 3 hours completing an area for a diamond and a passage scroll (more than once, for fun) ?

make UW hard as hell if you want, but make the rewards worthwhile, or just let things as they are (broken)

Problem Solved

People fail to see balanced team in PUGs are dead and have been since forever and always will be unless you can find a guild or you have a group of friends. And yes you make a good point about spending 2 to 3 hours in uw just toi get crap. Maybe just maybe if balanced groups do return they probably wont even last half as long as Ursan or SF did, not because of Anet because people just dont feel the need to spend that much time and get nothing.

I say go ahead and nerf SF, Ill move along to another farm/meta along with 90% of the other permas.

Renegade26 · Sep 13, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

The success of the UWSC PUG is that each role is very easy. If you make it too hard for the random noobs, people will give up based on frustration, whilst guild groups will continue to farm at high speeds. Sounds worse to me.
If you just want to slow everyone down without breaking the whole thing, change the 33% less damage to 50% or 66%. Pools can still kill CBlacknesses, degeners are mostly unaffected, but mnts and such will be slowing the whole run down for those players now. Itll still be possibly under the 30mins, people wont fail more often, and guild groups will be slowed down by a few minutes.

beaverlegions · Sep 13, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Wont people ever get bored of lets nerf sf threads?

Martin Alvito · Sep 13, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaverlegions

Wont people ever get bored of lets nerf sf threads?

There are other important issues in PvE?

People keep talking about it because it affects every PvE player in some way. The discussion about IWAY was similar back in the day in PvP.

gone · Sep 13, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaverlegions

Wont people ever get bored of lets nerf sf threads?

yes they will/do. after the a/e SF nerf, there will be plenty of foot stomping and taking of balls home. the next time around it will be about ?/rt spirit spamming.

Bug John · Sep 13, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

There are important issues in PvE?

A few loudmouths keep talking about it on these boards because they have nothing else to do.

fixed it for you, no need to thank me

important issues in pve... I'm quite impressed with this one, can I use it again or is there some kind of copyright ?

many say SF affects other players, but I'd really like to hear at least once HOW it does so

the analogy with iway fails, the only thing those skills have in common is that people will still QQ about it as long as GW exists

Atro · Sep 13, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

yes they will/do. after the a/e SF nerf, there will be plenty of foot stomping and taking of balls home. the next time around it will be about ?/rt spirit spamming.

Get this, the next 1000000000000000..... QQ threads are gonna be about 600/Smiters. The former SF abusers are have the same arguement as the people who QQ'ed about SF.

moriz · Sep 13, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

best way to nerf SF?

change monster AI to use the charr skill "gloat" and move half aggro range away as soon as a player use SF. problem solved.

olalunga · Sep 13, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawk2dr

Make Shadow Form a stance. Simple enough, still makes sense, won't work with deadly paradox.

Ppl should stop saying making SF a stance is nerfing! The reason

leave SF as it is and @%^&#$ Deadly Paradox

Bitoku Kishi · Sep 13, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I don't think you need to make Shadow Form unusable, just more balanced in the game in general. It's not a problem with UW specifically, as much as it's a problem with the skill itself. It's just imbalanced overall. This is why I proposed the following change to the PvE Shadow Form, which isn't just a straight nerf:

Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 30
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health. You cannot activate Shadow Form while enchanted with Shadow Form.

If you notice, I've actually reduced the recharge time on the skill, from 45 to 30. This buff would make Shadow Form much easier to maintain, and eliminate the need for some of the extra skills that are now required to get the recharge and duration to synchronize with each other. This in turn would make Shadow Forming easier on energy overall. And if that's not enough, I think the skill's duration could even be buffed to cap at around 26-30 seconds instead of 21, to make it potentially maintainable without any extra skills at all.

The additional qualification that I've added to the skill though, of it not being able to activate while enchanted with it, would force you to take the health cut after each time you use it. But additionally, and more importantly, this would give you a necessary ~1 second that you wouldn't have Shadow Form active each time in-between recasting it, requiring much more skill in using it. Specifically, you'd have to make sure you could survive for 1 second without it after each time you used it.

So overall, this change would actually make Shadow Form easier to maintain, but require more skill in using it, and also balance the skill out more. Seems like a win-win scenario to me.

Martin Alvito · Sep 13, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

fixed it for you, no need to thank me

^^

[sarcasm]
Narrow-mindedness is win.
[/sarcasm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

important issues in pve... I'm quite impressed with this one, can I use it again or is there some kind of copyright ?

So 55 Prot Bond farming wasn't an important issue?
HM Urgoz farming wasn't important?
The glitch that let players repeatedly farm Duncan wasn't important?
Ursan wasn't important?

Really? You want to take that stance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

many say SF affects other players, but I'd really like to hear at least once HOW it does so

1) It changes group compositions and drives out all competing builds through efficiency
2) It forces players that want to farm to make a new character and farm all the PvE junk on that class to farm
3) It makes the non-farming crowd just that much poorer.

Basically, SF is kudzu. It has no natural predators and it's highly efficient, so it kills off all variety. If the most efficient team build for areas is comprised of various classes and bars, and the most efficient build varies from area to area, there's just a lot more content. There's always another way you could learn to play the game when variety exists.

That's before we even get into hyperinflation in high-end markets. Notice that these periods only occur when lots of ectos are being created (dupe/SF).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

the analogy with iway fails, the only thing those skills have in common is that people will still QQ about it as long as GW exists

See the "crowds out diversity" argument. IWAY did the same thing in PvP; it wrecked the HA meta by crowding out a ton of build styles that were viable prior to IWAY. The IWAY build was simply the most efficient pressure build out there, so hex pressure, condition pressure and balanced pressure all disappeared from the meta. All that was left was IWAY and spikes (ranger, necro and adrenaline-based mixed).

AKB48 · Sep 14, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Best way to nerf UWSC: Permanent ban on anyone who do it.